Penrite Oil Forum Banner

Use of ATF BMV in place of ZF Lifeguard 6

Page 1 of 1
Robert Robert Profile Pic

Posts: 3

Joined: August 18, 2019

Robert Profile Pic
Robert

Posts: 3

Joined: August 18, 2019

Posted: 6 years ago | Edited: 6 years ago | Posted in Use of ATF BMV in place o...

Hi,

I have a 2005 BMW 530i with 175k km and the ZF6HP19 Transmission. Recently as part of regular servicing I changed the transmission filter and replaced the fluid with your ATF BMV. 

Immediately after the change and once the transmission is up to temperature, when under moderate to high load I encountered transmission fault errors which when investigated point towards clutch slip (multiple ratio monitoring fault codes). The codes do not occur only with a specific clutch and can be made to appear for any clutch. Depending on driving conditions and gear, the gearbox can be made to slip and thence fault in any clutch A through E.

I'm concerned that this fluid is more "slippery" than the original Lifeguard 6 and hence in an older transmission liable to create clutch slip and thence transmission faults?

Is this something that has been addressed previously?

For information the transmission mechatronic bridge seals were all replaced at the time of the filter / fluid change and the old fluid (approx 60k km old) was not burnt nor was there any sign of unusual particulate matter in the oil indicating excessive wear.

Having almost exclusively used penrite as my preferred oil in my 3 vehicles i'll be honest i'm a little dissappointed! 

My intent is to drain and refil with ZF Lifeguard 6 and can advise if this rectifies the issue, although due to upcoming travel will likely not be able to do this until early october. 

Although I used all of the oil that I purchased, is there any recourse to receive credit the product? Whilst i cannot provide any scientific evidence that the fault directly relates to the oil change, it seems highly unlikely that multiple recurring transmission slip faults would appear immediately following a change of the transmission oil and not be linked to the oil.


Kind Regards,

Robert 

 

1
0
Jessi Jessi Profile Pic

Penrite Staff

Posts: 206

Joined: November 5, 2018

Jessi Profile Pic
Jessi Penrite Staff

Posts: 206

Joined: November 5, 2018

Posted: 6 years ago | Posted in Use of ATF BMV in place o...

Hi Robert,

We haven’t heard of any issue with our ATF BMV causing clutch slippage, this oil has been tested and has been used in these transmissions with no issue at all.

I have investigated this issue online and found that is seems to be a common problem people are discussing that a solenoid appears to be an issue along with resetting the “adaptation values”

After looking online, I would say that even replacing our product with the OEM ZF fluid would not make any difference as it doesn’t appear to be due to the oil used more so a mechanical fault.

Have you had a transmission specialist investigate this?

1
0
Robert Robert Profile Pic

Posts: 3

Joined: August 18, 2019

Robert Profile Pic
Robert

Posts: 3

Joined: August 18, 2019

Posted: 6 years ago | Posted in Use of ATF BMV in place o...

Hi Jessi,

Thanks for your reply.


I had a transmission specalist look at it today and their concensus was as the gearbox is faulting with all clutches either a gearbox pressure problem or more likely given the age, a clutch slipping issue. Solenoids could be a potential cause of low pressure, however it seems unlikely as there was no sign of issue prior to the change. Adaptations were reset and the adaptation process completed per ZF technical literature. 

 

Why the slipping clutches, and why all at once? Their advice was given the age of the transmission the fluid change may have uncovered potentially worn clutches that were being masked by suspended matter in the old oil. The fresh oil being clean in simple terms isn't as grippy as the old and hence the faults under heavy load.

 

They couldn't comment on the differences in oil and suggested lifeguard 6 may have different properties that may fix the problem, however there is no guarantee and lifeguard 6 is an expensive way to test the theory!

 

As such the gearbox is about to come out! It may be some time till i get to it as i'll be away, but i'll update you with the condition of the internals when i get resolution.

 

Cheers,

Robert

1
0
CraigE CraigE Profile Pic

Posts: 4

Joined: February 2, 2020

CraigE Profile Pic
CraigE

Posts: 4

Joined: February 2, 2020

Posted: 3 years ago | Posted in Use of ATF BMV in place o...

Hi interesting issue.

Not sure it is the Penrite oil that is the problem as we have a BMW 323i and a similar issue after draining the gearbox and replacing with a different suitable fluid a while back. There is a known issue with these gearboxes when flushed that particles and build up can be dislodged with the clean fluid as BMW state lifetime oil in sealed gearboxes. These particle become lodged in the valve body gallery causing similar symptoms. I have to pull ours apart to see if this is the issue. The issue mainly is ZF dont sell the kits required in Australia and refer us to BMW which makes the repairs not financially viable. So I would say not the BMV fluid.

It is a shame that the original poster has not come back with the actual outcome.

Same gets said for use in Land Rover Discovery 4 auto boxes. Only slight difference I have noted is a little more noise. Others in LR clubs have blamed the BMV for similar faults, but the underlying cause seems to be more that the ZF Lifeguard seems to hide these issues a bit longer, but also at $40-$65 a litre for LF is just not tenable so why we use BMV.

Only oil we cant use Penrite currently is for the Magna-Steyer transfer case that requires LR special sauce.

Cheers

Craig

1
0
Irish Yobbo Irish Yobbo Profile Pic

Posts: 1

Joined: August 23, 2022

Irish Yobbo Profile Pic
Irish Yobbo

Posts: 1

Joined: August 23, 2022

Posted: 3 years ago | Posted in Use of ATF BMV in place o...

I'm currently having the same issues as OP, it's a shame no reply has been made as to the solution. I did a partial fluid change following the directions given with the Penrite ZF transmission change guide, figuring that a full change after so long (170k) could be problematic. But now under moderate/high load once warmed up, the transmission will go into limp mode, and throw codes for clutch slip.

I'm inclined to try changing the mechatronic sleeve which I didn't do, but OP said they did that and with the same results as what I have. I could change the solenoids, but at this stage I'm just swapping parts out and hoping for the best.

I'm hoping that the transmission will 'adapt' to the new fluid over time - if this doesn't happen I'll reset adaptations and see if that fixes the problem. Besides that, there's not much that can be done except for some more serious mechanical work.

1
0
Robert Robert Profile Pic

Posts: 3

Joined: August 18, 2019

Robert Profile Pic
Robert

Posts: 3

Joined: August 18, 2019

Posted: 3 years ago | Posted in Use of ATF BMV in place o...

I'll reply I'm more depth later however in short my resolution was a replacement of the clutches in the transmission. I wouldn't recommend resetting adoptions as it's likely you'll exacerbate any slipping as the transmission has likely adapted to some degree of slip due to wear over time.

1
0
Page 1 of 1

You need to login in order to reply to topics within this forum. Login